42 Aging in the Movement with Two Old Bitches Idelisse Malavé and Joanne Sandler

This week we’re talking Aging in the Movement with Idelisse Malavé and Joanne Sandler, extraordinary women leaders for global justice and co-hosts of the podcast Two Old Bitches. They tell us about the secrets of bitchcraft, the importance of friendship and creativity, being unapologetically yourself, trusting yourself and others, tender transparency, the importance of having friends in every decade of life, play, and therapy (well maybe - that last one is contested).

This interview is hosted by Shawna Wakefield, a friend & member of the Healing Justice Podcast Advisory Circle. Learn more about Shawna and the Advisory Circle.

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About our guests

By Idelisse & Joanne's definition, “BITCH” means “Being In Total Charge of Herself,” and their podcast Two Old Bitches celebrates kick-ass, unstoppable women over 50. They explode myths about gender and aging and re-define what it means to be a woman at any age. Learn more at http://www.twooldbitches.com

Idelisse Malavé, 71, has been honing her bitchcraft for decades. A working class Puerto Rican immigrant raised in a middle-class, mostly Jewish, Brooklyn neighborhood, she graduated from Columbia Law School, defying expectations of who and what she could be to become a fierce social justice activist. After practicing public interest law in the 70s and 80s, she went on to lead progressive organizations – as Vice President of the Ms. Foundation and Executive Director of Tides Foundation – and wrote two books, Mother Daughter Revolution (Bantam) and Latino Stats (The New Press). Her motto these days is: “If it pleases me, I will.”

Joanne Sandler, 67, is on an endless journey to find her bitchy voice. She’s written articles and books like Gender at Work (Routledge), How Feminists Change Bureaucracies and Bureaucracies Change Feminists (Oxford Press), Women’s Rights Have No Country (OpenDemocracy). A lifelong feminist, Joanne was ‘institutionalized’ for nearly two decades (as Deputy Executive Director of the UN Development Fund for Women-UNIFEM -- and many other women’s rights organizations). She’s traveled to more than 65 countries and now consults with Gender at Work. Her lifelong motto still applies ”Always leave while you’re still having a good time!”

Practice: The Do-Over

Check out the corresponding practice episode to hear Joanne and Idelisse offer a practice to help process experiences of bias and discrimination

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